Walking with a Saint - 2010 (click to download)
A Morning Walk, July 6, 2010
Marina di Massa, Italy
[Respected Harikatha Readers,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.
Srila Gurudeva, nitya-lila pravista om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja, is present in all his ages, and in all the years that we have all known him. Being a manifestation and intimate associate of Sri Krsna, he enjoys Krsna's qualities (saksad-dharitvena); he and his qualities are therefore ever-fresh and ever-unfolding.
As with Krsna's associates like Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, who spoke Srimad-Bhagavatam 5,000 years ago and yet his words are appropriate and vital today, and Srila Rupa Gosvami, who spoke 500 years ago, so Srila Gurudeva's words of guidance, which are not different from his heart, are our very life-breath for always.
This transcription (which contains endnotes from Gurudeva's lectures and darsans and morning walks that are just as vital as the rest of the transcription) has no sound or video accompaniment. It therefore doesn't contain his laughter, his sweet voice, and his intonations which reveal further meanings. However, by our prayers, he is happy to fill in all these aspects and more. – The Harikatha team]
Harernāmānanda dāsa: Śrīla Gurudeva, sometimes devotees wonder what is the meaning and significance of wearing Vaiṣṇava dress, because it is a five-hundred-year-old tradition.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: If a person wearing red (saffron) cloth commits any sin, he will easily be caught. It is for this reason that our ācāryas have given red cloth. Many kinds of persons can dress in white, but if one engages in nonsense while wearing this red cloth, at once he will be caught.
Geru raṅga (saffron color) contains something mysterious. It gives something to the body that makes the wearer better able to resist kāma (lust); that is why it has been given. But nowadays geru is not real geru; we use artificial color.
Harernāmānanda dāsa: Some devotees think that it is not necessary to wear kurtā, dhotī, or sārī. They say that it is acceptable to walk around in ordinary non-devotee clothing.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: No. They are wrong. All of our ācāryas were very, very careful. Rāmānuja, Madhva, and Viṣṇusvāmī have all taken daṇḍa and this cloth. They discovered that this geru raṅga helps in so many ways.
Śrīpāda Mādhava Mahārāja: Some think that for gṛhastha Vaiṣṇavas, with wife and children, there is no need for dhotī, kurtā, and sārī, and that they can wear things like half-pants [shorts].
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Illegal.
Harernāmānanda dāsa: Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Svāmī Mahārāja used to say that when we are wearing devotee clothes, everyone can see that we are for spiritual life, just like a policeman is known by his uniform. Everyone knows what his business is.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: This evening we will speak about Kṛṣṇa’s killing of Dhenukāsura, Kṛṣṇa’s destroying Indra’s pride, Kṛṣṇa’s chastisement of Kāliya, and perhaps Kṛṣṇa’s meeting the Yajña-patnīs. [To a sannyāsī] You, especially, can prepare to speak about Dhenukāsura.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: Śrīla Gurudeva, it is stated [in Padma Purāṇa], sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te nisphalā matāḥ. [“A mantra received from an unauthentic source will not give any fruit.”] The mantra is meant for one to achieve the goal of bhāva, and ultimately prema. If a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī gives this mantra to a disciple, is there any effect?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: A kaniṣṭha-adhikārī should not do so. He should take that person to a high-class Vaiṣṇava to be initiated.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: So, in a case where a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī gives the mantra to a disciple, is there no effect?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: If he does this, what is there to say? Many kaniṣṭhas are doing this.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: Somebody may say that because in some societies there are no high-class Vaiṣṇavas, there is a need for kaniṣṭhas to give initiation.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: In fact, even those who haven’t reached the level of kaniṣṭha-adhikārī – those with no adhikāra at all – are giving ‘initiation.’
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: So, the fruit is not bhakti?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Millions of persons are doing this. Those with nothing, not even the qualification of kaniṣṭha, are doing this, and nothing can be done about it.
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: But will the fruit of this initiation be bhakti, or sukṛti only? The disciples will not get bhakti – is this correct?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: The result will be nothing.
Śrīpāda Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Śrīla Madhvācārya has not written any commentary to Brahma-vimohana-līlā.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Brahmā was Śrī Madhvācārya’s guru, so Madhvācārya considered, “My gurudeva can have no fault.” It is for this reason that he has not written a commentary to this pastime.
Śrīpāda Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Lord Brahmā is our guru also, so how are we to understand this ‘fault’ of his?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Mahāprabhu was very liberal. He did not see this from only one angle.
Śrīpāda Mādhava Mahārāja: It was through Brahmā that Kṛṣṇa performed so many pastimes. Kṛṣṇa was able to fulfil the vrajagopīs’ desires, the mothers’ desires, and the cows’ desires.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: So many of Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes manifested from this one incident, so why should Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī refrain from commenting on it? Why should Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī or Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī leave this out?
Śrīpāda Mādhava Mahārāja: Or Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura.
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: They did not avoid writing commentaries on this pastime.
Śrīpāda Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Brahmājī is our ādi-guru (first, original guru). He is a great Vaiṣṇava. Being a great Vaiṣṇava, why could he not see the original cowherd boys and calves?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: He was influenced by some māyā. He was born from a lotus flower, so some defect must be there. That was the defect. The influence of Kṛṣṇa’s māyā was so much greater than the power of Brahmā.
Baladeva thought, “Why are all these things going on?” He told Kṛṣṇa, “O Prabhu, without Your mercy, no one can understand Your pastimes. Even I cannot understand; what to speak of Brahmā and others?
Śrīpāda Nemi Mahārāja: Are the gopīs with whom Kṛṣṇa dances married to the same cowherd boys with whom He plays in the daytime?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: [To Brajanāth dāsa] What did he say?
Brajanāth dāsa: At the time of Brahma-vimohana-līlā, all the gopīs married the gopas. Then, after the līlā was over, did they remain married to those gopas?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Yes. They married only one time, not two. After that one time, they simply thought, “This is my husband.”
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: Gurudeva, in the Upadeṣāmṛta of Śrīla A. C. Bhaktivedānta Svāmī Mahārāja, at the end of Purport Five, he says not to take a guru if he is not uttama-adhikārī. He also says, “Don’t become guru if you are not uttama-adhikārī.” Then he says that both the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī and madhyama-adhikārī may also take disciples, but that such disciples cannot make much progress due to insufficient guidance. The question is this: Below which level would you say that one should not venture to take disciples?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: It is not written anywhere. But I think that, at the least, one requires the qualification of a madhyama-madhyama devotee in order to give initiation.
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: Does his giving of the dīkṣā-mantra have the power to give divya-jñāna (transcendental knowledge)?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: It is not as powerful as if Nārada would give it. If Nārada gives initiation, at once, in a second, divya-jñāna will manifest. But we are not like him.
Śrīpāda Nemi Mahārāja: What are the symptoms of a madhyama-madhyama-adhikārī, Śrīla Gurudeva?
Śrīpāda Mādhava Mahārāja: He is asking: what is the qualification of a madhyama-madhyama? Is it ruci, or āsakti, or niṣṭhā, or what?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: [He must have come] up to āsakti. And, if bhāva comes…
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: The definition of divya-jñāna is that the guru is putting the form of Bhagavān in the heart by the mantra, like a seed. From that seed manifests bhagavatā sambandha viseṣa jñānaṁ ca (Bhakti-sandarbha, Anuccheda 283), meaning specific realized knowledge of one’s relationship with Bhagavān. At which level can guru know this?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: If I know, and you know, why will that madhyama-madhyama not know? However, realization of that knowledge will come at bhāva. Without bhāva, or rati, realization will not come; but even at that level the realization will be as though ‘covered with glass.’
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: So, does ‘up to āsakti’ mean ruci? Is ruci not madhyama-madhyama? ‘Up to āsakti’ begins from where?
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: Ruci.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: [To Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja] He didn’t say ruci with his mouth. You said ruci.
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: [To Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja] But it is understood in all śāstra.
Brajanāth dāsa: Gurudeva said, “Āsakti.”
Śrīpāda Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If we look closely, we see that so many gurus take disciples although those gurus’ anarthas have not gone. They have not passed anartha-nṛvrtti, yet they are taking disciples. How can they do this?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Nowadays there is no consideration of qualification at all – nothing. All are allowed to give, especially unqualified persons.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: Śrīla Gurudeva, you said, “up to āsakti.” Do you mean niṣṭhā-ruci madhyama-madhyama, or only ruci-āsakti madhyama-madhyama?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Ki sab? [Bengali phrase, meaning, “What is it that you continue to ask again and again?”]
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: If one is not madhyama-madhyama and he gives dīkṣā, what reaction will he receive?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Good result (gati); there is no harm in this. Kṛṣṇa will do what is needful.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: No, I am not referring to the madhyama-madhyama. I am asking about one who is less than that.
Brajanāth dāsa: What is the result of an unqualified guru giving dīkṣā?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: He should be qualified.
Śrīpāda Āśrama Mahārāja: But what if he is unqualified? Then?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: What will be the result? You know.
Śrīpāda Śuddhādvaitī Mahārāja: So madhyama-madhyama begins at ruci; yes?
Śrīla Nārāyaṇa Gosvāmī Mahārāja: Do you know the meaning of māna (honor) and sammāna (honor, or respect)? The desire for these things will grow. That unqualified person will thus think, “I am the only guru,” and then he will fall down.
[ACCORDING TO THE SOUNDFILE, THIS IS THE END OF JULY 6TH AND START OF JULY 7TH]
Devotee: How can I know that my relationship with my Gurudeva is growing?
Srila Gurudeva: I have told this so many times. (To Sripad Padmanabha Maharaja) Please tell him.
Sripad Padmanabha Maharaja: Srila Gurudeva was recently asked a similar question in Los Angeles, California. His answer was, "You will be happy. If you are developing your relationship properly, you will be happy."
Devotee: I received diksa-mantra from you a year ago. What is my service?
Srila Gurudeva: You can serve according to your skill and qualification; preaching, distributing my books, reading my books – all these things.
Kamala-kanta dasa (of Germany): Srila Gurudeva, is there some special significance in Romahasana Suta's being killed with a blade of grass?
Srila Gurudeva: Kusa grass is very sharp, very sharp, like a knife.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: If you don't hold it properly, it will cut you.
Srila Gurudeva: And kusa was readily available there.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Baladeva Prabhu took the blade of kusa and simply touched Romaharsana Suta with the tip of its blade. In this way, Romaharsana was actually killed by Baladeva Prabhu's desire.
Srila Gurudeva: Kusa is pavitra.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Meaning very pure; very auspicious.
Srila Gurudeva: It was for all these reasons that Baladeva Prabhu killed him by the kusa.
Devotee: Why is paran (the breaking of the Ekadasi fast at a specific time on the dvadasi day, by eating some grain) so important? Why is it so important to break the fast within such a little time-span, which is sometimes only ten or fifteen minutes? Moreover, how were people able to do this before the days of watches?
Srila Gurudeva: Oh, yes. If they don't know, there is nothing they can do; but if they know, they must do it within the proper time.
Devotee: Why is it so important?
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: If you don't follow, you lose the fruit of Ekadasi. This is mentioned in Hari-bhakti-vilasa and other scriptures. Ekadasi is tomorrow here; today in America.
Sripad Sajjana Maharaja: One day in Navadvipa, we had a time period of eight minutes in which to take paran. I had a watch, and I saw that the Bengalis were breaking their fast at exactly at the right time without watches.
Sripad Ashrama Maharaja: I have a question on guru-tattva. Maharaja is asking me to ask this question. Yesterday you explained that if a kanistha-adhikari gives diksa, the result is zero. But it has been said that you previously mentioned that if the kanistha-adhikari who is giving diksa is himself taking siksa from a higher devotee, this system might be okay.
My question is this: What is the need for a kanistha-adhikari to give diksa if he can directly send that person to the higher devotee, and he himself just helps with instruction?
Srila Gurudeva: The kanistha-adhikari should not give diksa. He should take the candidates to the uttama-adhikari.
Sripad Ashrama Maharaja: Somebody said that you mentioned once before that this system may be okay. I just wanted it confirmed.
Srila Gurudeva: But it is better to take them to the uttama-adhikari.
Sripad Suddhadvaiti Maharaja: What if there is no maha-bhagavat available in our sanga?
Srila Gurudeva: Madhyama.
Sripad Ashrama Maharaja: Madhyama; madhyama-madhyama.
Srila Gurudeva: Madhyama is available everywhere.
Sripad Suddhadvaiti Maharaja: Everywhere?
Srila Gurudeva: (To Sripad Suddhadvaiti Maharaja) You yourself can give diksa.
Sripad Suddhadvaiti Maharaja: Why are you cheating me now?
Srila Gurudeva: Nemi Maharaja, and you, and all. One day you will have to give diksa; today or tomorrow.
Sannyasi: Next life.
Srila Gurudeva: Better to start now.
Sripad Sudhadvaiti Maharaja: Double cheating now.
Brajanath dasa: They are inviting (meaning 'my observation is that they are anxious to start initiating').
Srila Gurudeva: They can all do it.
Devotee: Gurudeva, how can I keep your presence with me, in my heart, at every moment?
Srila Gurudeva: Oh, Nemi Maharaja, please answer.
Sripad Nemi Maharaja: First of all, we should follow Srila Gurudeva's instructions. We should serve his mission and understand "saksad haritvena samasta sastrai." Gurudeva is like Krsna; he is within the heart. So, we can constantly cultivate the sense that he is always with us – associating with him within our heart and serving him within the heart.
Srila Gurudeva: Are you satisfied?
Devotee: Yes
Sripad Nemi Maharaja: Yes, he's satisfied Srila Gurudeva.
Devotee: Thank you.
Sripad Suddhadvaiti Maharaja: Someone asked this question: The cows have vatsalya-prema for Krsna. Are they higher than the sakhas, who have sakhya-prema?
Srila Gurudeva: If those cows are vatsalya, then it may be. But first they should be vatsalya. They are unable to express themselves by words. The can simply think, "I want Krsna to be my son; then I will give Him my milk."
Are there any more questions?
Devotee: Gurudeva, since madhurya-prema is higher than sakhya-prema, how is it possible for somebody in sakhya-prema to be completely happy?
Brajanath dasa: He is asking: How can anyone with the mood of sakhya, or dasya, or vatsalya be fully happy, if the highest mood is madhurya-, or srngara-, rasa?
Srila Gurudeva: None of you have any mood at all. When bhava comes, you will be able to see who you are and what is your eternal relationship with Krsna – but that realization is compared to seeing something that is covered by glass. When you attain prema, you will be able to see everything clearly.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Will the devotee be happy by his own mood even though he knows that vatsalya-rasa and madhurya rasa are higher than sakhy-arasa?
Srila Gurudeva: He will realize his happiness when he reaches the stage of bhava.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Yes. But at that time will they think those in madhurya-rasa are higher, or will they be happy by their own rasa?
Srila Gurudeva: First let bhava come; then talk.
Darsana after the walk
Syamarani dasi: Srila Gurudeva, this is Dina-dayal prabhu. He was initiated by you thirteen years ago, and just now came back. He is like Ananta prabhu for communication; and he is like Dilip, who was helping the members of your society to communicate with each other.
Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Very good. Good, good.
Syamarani dasi: So now he has agreed to help us form a new Communication Seva-Team, to help the devotees to become leaders in communication, to train others so that everyone will feel encouraged to work together in harmony without conflicts, and to bring each other up to our highest potential of service to you.
Srila Gurudeva: (To Dina-dayal dasa) Oh, you can do it.
Syamarani dasi: We want to send a letter about this new seva-team to the sanga. We are wondering if you can say a few words encouraging...
Srila Gurudeva: You can say.
Syamarani dasi: Okay.
Srila Gurudeva: I have no time.
Syamarani dasi: You have already said so many things.
Srila Gurudeva: I have told everything in my classes. So, he should do it.
Dina-dayal dasa: Srila Gurudeva, thank you so much for your mercy, and I hope I can serve you as you desire.
Endnotes:
[Endnote 1: The maya that influenced Brahma was yogamaya, not mahamaya: "When Krsna killed Aghasura, Lord Brahma saw Aghasura's soul enter into Krsna's lotus feet. He thought, "How wonderful this is! I want to see more sweet pastimes." That is why he thought of stealing the calves and boys.
In the meantime, Krsna was thinking about how to fulfill four wishes: (1) the desire of all of the teenage gopis; (2) the desires of the cows and mothers; (3) the desire of Lord Brahma; and (4) His own desire to taste the affection of these associates. As He was contemplating in this way, Yogamaya at once appeared to Him and said, 'Prabhu, you are thinking about tasting these relationships, so I will arrange for this right away.' This is why she caught hold of Brahma and brought him under her influence. She made this thought arise in him: 'I am Brahma. I should steal away the cowherd boys and calves. Then I will see what He will do. Maybe He will come to me and ask where they are.'" (from Walking With A Saint, Miami, May 24, 2008)]
[Endnote 2: The gopis said, "Brahma was born from the lotus-navel of Padmanabha Visnu, so he is like that lotus flower. His intelligence is quite dull, because he has come from the stem of an inert lotus. How can demigods like Brahma know anything? They can pray to You and believe that You are the Supreme Lord. They can believe that You can create this entire universe in a second and then destroy it. They can glorify You like this, but we have known You from the beginning of Your birth, and we know You at this very moment. These demigods and yogis may pray to You for salvation, or they can pray to You that Your lotus feet may appear in their hearts. They should do so, because they are as foolish as anything. We are not like them, for we are very clever and intelligent." (from Origin of Ratha-yatra, Chapter 6, Krsna Meets the Gopis)]
[Endnote 3: At the time of Brahma-vimohana-lila, all the gopis married, or more specifically, were betrothed to, the gopas who were actually the expansions of Krsna. Later, the gopis considered as their husbands the original gopas, who had been kidnapped by Brahma. -ed]
[Endnote 4: "In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master." (from Nectar of Instruction, Chapterh. 5 Purport] [This text does not say 'initiate.' It says 'accept disciples.' - ed]
[Endnote 5: Bilvamangala Thakura pays obeisances to Cintamani, who had inspired him to take shelter of Sri Krsna. What type of guru was she? A vartma-pradarsakaguru, one who says, "Come with me to a realized Vaisnava." The vartma-pradarsaka-guru shows the path. He may be kanistha, that is alright; but the initiating guru should not be less than a madhyama-adhikari.
What are the symptoms of madhyama-adhikari? You need to know these symptoms before accepting a diksa or siksa-guru. If you do not see these symptoms, then do not accept a person as guru. Otherwise, there will be so many difficulties in your devotional life. If that guru falls down, your life will be ruined and you will cry bitterly.
The first symptom of the bona fide guru is this:
tasmad gurum prapadyeta
jijnasuh sreya uttamam
sabde pare ca nisnatam
brahmany upasamasrayam
Srimad-Bhagavatam, 11.3.21
Any person who is seriously desirous of achieving real happiness must seek out a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of a spiritual master is that he must have realized the conclusion of the scriptures by deliberation and arguments and thus be able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken complete shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, are to be understood as bona fide spiritual masters.
Though all symptoms should be there in full, two are prominent. The first symptom is sabde pare ca nisnatam brahmany; the guru has complete knowledge of the scriptures. The second symptom is upasamasrayam; he is detached from material desires. He is always so happy serving Sri Krsna. If he is unhappy and feels that his life has so many problems, then he is not qualified to be guru. Haridasa Thakura was beaten in twenty-two marketplaces, almost to the point of death, but he did not consider this a problem. He kept chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. Prahlada Maharaja was tortured by his father, yet he never felt he had a problem. Rather, he stood on the head of all problems.
A guru who chants and performs the nine processes of bhakti, and who has taken diksa but who laments that he has so many problems – that his wife has cheated him, his children are not with him, he cannot manage or make money, or that he has no computer or no sufficient material facility – should be rejected at once.
The third symptom of guru is that he is realized in krsna-bhakti. Without having this realization, because he still has material desires, he is bound to fall. Besides these three symptoms, a madhyama-adhikari will have four additional qualities. The uttama-adhikari is of course superior and offers a superior result in bhakti, but such a guru is rare in this world. In the absence of such an uttama-guru, the madhyama-adhikari can be accepted as a siksa or diksa-guru.
But one should see whether or not he has the following four qualities:
1) prema –He has love and affection for Krsna. (Gurudeva's footnote to this word: Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura writes in his Srimad-Bhagavatam commentary that a madhyama-adhikari cannot have real prema. But by thinking of how the gopis loved Krsna, he may receive a shadow of their prema. Thus he achieves the level of asakti, attachment for Krsna.)
2) maitre – He shows friendship towards and offers...(etc.) (from Pinnacle of Devotion, Chapter entitled "The Role of Siksa-Guru")]
